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Under 18's declarations for Club racing

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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:53pm
Originally posted by Rupert

I think it's that there are 2 things being discussed here. Land based adult supervision and water based being treated as an equal to all the other sailors where age is concerned, when ability is all that matters.


Exactly.

Nor should we imagine that having a parent on site in anyway mitigates on the water risks.

But it’s terribly tempting for committee’s to think it does.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NicolaJayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Today at 12:53am
Originally posted by Brass

Originally posted by piglet

if U18 the parent/guardian/loco parentis on-site makes the decision,

In the absence of a parent or guardian, who might the 'loco parentis' on site be?

What criteria do you use to identify the 'in loco parentis' person in the absence of parents or guardians?

Can you give some examples?


off the top of my  head 

a  helm / crew   who is  over 18  

the parent  of  a helm / crew  who is also an under 18 

a named and suitably  trained and  checked  person  acting in the role of youth leader 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Today at 1:51am
Originally posted by NicolaJayne

Originally posted by Brass

Originally posted by piglet

if U18 the parent/guardian/loco parentis on-site makes the decision,

In the absence of a parent or guardian, who might the 'loco parentis' on site be?

What criteria do you use to identify the 'in loco parentis' person in the absence of parents or guardians?

Can you give some examples?


off the top of my  head 

a  helm / crew   who is  over 18  

the parent  of  a helm / crew  who is also an under 18 

a named and suitably  trained and  checked  person  acting in the role of youth leader 

Can you provide any authority for those examples?  They seem a bit way out to me.

Are you seriously saying that the helm (?person in charge?) of a boat who is over 18, by doing just that, assumes parental responsibility for any crew under that age?

Are you saying that the crew of a boat who is over 18, somehow assumes parental responsibility for the person in charge of that boat if that person is under 18?



Edited by Brass - Today at 2:12am
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Today at 9:10am
Legally, I have no idea, but practically, surely it is no different from a play park, say. If the parents aren't there, then parents of friends are often happy to look out for others, and yes, when I was crewing, my helm would certainly expect to make sure I was happy when sailing and behaving when on land. My parents were rarely there. I'd expect to do the same now. Nothing obtrusive, just a weather eye.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Today at 9:48am
At Hunts we insist there is an adult nominated for 'children' the waters to get a little murky when they reach 16/17 but by that point, in legal terms, they would usually be considered to be legally responsible.

I am not sure how we deal with this on normal club activities but on courses we ask the parents to write a letter stating they are happy for their child to travel to and from the club alone. On course with under 18s the club is in loco parentis, we prefer parents to not be on site unless they are helping out.

Hunts is also a small club and most of the regular sailors and duty teams (who are volunteers from the sailors) know each other. So on a windy day we know who will usually be ok and who needs a closer eye kept on them.

In terms of forms I believe it is covered in the club rules about youth/junior members and we have had a number of parents join as social members. When there is a good youth group the parents tend to take it in turns to be the nominated adult on site, it works pretty well and we have not had any incidents.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Today at 10:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Today at 10:50am
People, don't forget there is now solid legislation for child protection. You don't have a choice about complying with it, no matter how onerous, or bureaucratic, or ridiculous it seems, and how much better you think it might be to use common sense or do what you've always done.

If your club doesn't have up to date professional advice that the way you are doing things is still legal, it seems to me that it would be extraordinarily unwise not to get it. And fast. And consider, your policies make look sensible to you now, but how will they look when reported in news media after being distorted by a slanted reporter looking for a scandal to sell copy?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Today at 11:47am
Robert,  Thank you for bringing up Safeguarding.

I would point out that sailing is significantly different from lawn tennis, in that there is a non-negligible risk of death arising from participation in sailing events.

The RYA has provided what appears to be pretty comprehensive guidance to assist clubs to discharge their obligations.  here

http://www.rya.org.uk/about-us/rya-policies/safeguarding/Pages/hub.aspx

JimC, I think the RYA guidance is intended to enable clubs to implement safeguarding requirements without obtaining individual legal advice.


Edited by Brass - Today at 11:48am
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Today at 11:52am
Originally posted by Brass

JimC, I think the RYA guidance is intended to enable clubs to implement safeguarding requirements without obtaining individual legal advice.

For sure. I'd count that as current legal advice.

Edited by JimC - Today at 12:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Today at 1:08pm
We're a sea club, so when it's likely to be difficult for kids it's just as likely to be awkward for adults, so it's more naturally all or nothing. We don't have that many kids that are not parentally guided anyway, in fact just the one 16 year old lass who I occasionally drew the short straw to crew in the RS200, I still wake up screaming. She's gone 17 now and I don't think at any time anyone would have refused her access, we view it lucky a kid nowadays even showed interest and therefore should be encouraged to the exciting bit.

Lucky she didn't do what most kids do, take up windsurfing or kitesurfing, or paddle boarding, easier access, fewer rules and regs.

That is those who can be persuaded to do anything real rather than virtual.

The Lake on the other hand is a different story, where the damned kids just rock round in their toppers, mirrors and miracles on a chocolate quest, they should be banned but for entirely different reasons than their safety.

Edited by iGRF - Today at 1:10pm
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